Catalina 350 International Association

Dave,
The half flange on the shaft should stay on the shaft. The set screws (two in each hole) should be removed on the collar of the last drop shaft seal allowing the shaft and flange to be moved aft for the engine to be raised. See pictures above.

The price for the damper seems high!!! The boat show price for the same part (not from Westerbeke) is about $200.
The original part is a 22B4 from R&D that is in the Westerbeke M35B. R&D makes a High Deflection model of the same part if you are getting excessive "chatter" at low speeds.
I have tried all three models of the damper plates and settled on the High Deflection model.

Once you split the shaft flange and back off the shaft, use the 6" jacking screws to raise the rear of the engine by loosening the rear 15/16" top engine mount nuts. (see pix above) Do not remove the mounts or move the lower nuts on the mounts.
Keep us posted on your progress.

Leigh Weiss
Brisa #155

P.S.
the part numbers for the replacements are mentioned above in other posts. Search the internet for best prices. If you need a R&D 22B4 replacement, I have one (new/used) I used for a trial test of three types of damper plates.

Hi Leigh. thanks for the quick response. I did order the hi deflection PYI that you used ($215) so will try that one first. however, I am still a bit confused about the set screws. According to Jerry's recipe, (see below), he couldn't slide the flange back so he just left it in place???? I see that he said the prop shaft moves back instead of the flange, but if so, why not simply slide the shaft/flange back as a unit???

Remove seizing wire from two prop flange set screws and loosen screws using 3/8-inch open end wrench. Screws not very tight.
Use flat screwdriver to pry prop shaft flange from transmission flange but prop shaft moves back rather than flange moving on prop shaft.
Remove prop shaft flange set screws and shoot WD40 into holes and into cotter key hole but still can not slide flange on prop shaft. Tap flange with hammer but no good.
Using 15/16-inch wrench, remove nuts & washers from rear motor mounts.

dave. (while not having a great time, learning a lot about this!)

Dave,
I assume your engine is a Westerbeke M35B with a Hurth transmission. These instructions are for that setup.
I left the flange on the prop shaft. I did not have to play with it but only removed the the four bolts to split the flange and the set screws in the black collar/bearing of the shaft seal and slid the shaft rearwards opening a small gap between the two flange faces. This allows the engine to swing clear as you raise it. I re-tightened the collar bearing to reduce leaking (I did this job in the water).
The collar has the two set screws in each hole, one on top of the other for a total of four.
Take a deep breath and go to it.

Leigh Weiss


Brisa #155

Thanks Leigh. Yes I do have the setup as stated. I will go for it! But once (and for the last time i swear!), what does loosening the set screws do to allow the shaft to move aft a tiny bit? were you able to slide the flange back (away from the transmission) relative to the shaft by loosening the screws? I am sure I am making too much of this, but just don't want to cause a leak at the dripper bellows (is this a legal technical term?)

thanks
dave
ps. how "used" is your damper? I may buy it for backup.
d

Dave,
the two set screws on the bearing/collar of the last drop shaft seal allows the shaft to move rearwards (bearing/collar move forward) without compressing the bellows beyond the limit of flex. Once the bearing/collar is repositioned and the seal is not leaking, then lightly re-tighten the set screws to hold the collar in place
My 22B4 drive plate is new with +/- 10 hours of use to test drive plates.
I still have the Sachs drive plate as well in the same condition in its box.
$90 each or two for $150 plus shipping.

Go for it!! Remember to use lock tight on the screws holding the drive plate to the flywheel
I used a short stubby wrench to reach the bolts holding the transmission to the bell housing.
The lower bolts might not come all the way out until you pull the transmission rearwards 1/8 "
The alignment pins should hold the transmission in place as you do this.
On the first of three changes of the drive plates, I removed the heat exchanger for better access.
On the next two changes, I simply worked around it without removal.
I used this opportunity to check the mounting straps holding the heat exchanger. I had to replace one of them due to cracks. To reassemble the mounting straps on the heat exchanger, I used nylon wire ties to hold the ends close together to allow me to start the mounting screws.
I left them in place.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Leigh Weiss
Brisa #155

thanks. I think I was referring to the wrong set screws! I am not at the boat, but I was thinking about the two that are on the FLANGE and safety wired. Jerry's photos don't show them - i think they are rotated towards the bottom - out of sight. That is why I didn't see how removing them would allow the shaft to move aft. Anyway, from the photos, now I see some set screws on the collar you mentioned and it makes sense now! (finally).

I am going down there this weekend to keep plugging ahead.
also I will buy those two from you. can you send me an email and I will send you my address and you can send me yours for the check.

thanks

dave
ps. the PYI will be here in a day or two. Which one do you recommend me replacing first? Maybe the original one from you. At least it will be easier to see how the "new" one goes in - same as the old song. (sorry)

leigh. pretty hard to send me an email with my address!
albirda.gyro@yahoo.com
dave

Nybor, are you on the hard? I don't see any safe way to replace the PYI PSS ( we call it the positive sinking seal ) while in the water. Reasoning is that the seal is all that's keeping water that's in the log shaft from coming in. I've only been keeping a light eye on your discussions, but just wanted to pop in on this part.
Al

Hmmm. thanks (i think) for that info. I think Leigh said he did it while in the water. Leigh am I mistaken?
thanks
dave
ps it is in the water currently.

Dave,
Sure thing!!
I did it three times while the boat was in the water.
You just get a little seepage when you move the collar and shaft then all is dry.

Have fun!


Leigh Weiss

Brisa #155

In case it helps, I think we are getting wires crossed a little here. Seems Al is referring to changing the PSS boot (which you wouldn't do in the water I don't think) and Leigh is referring to just changing the damper plate by compressing the PSS boot a bit with the prop shaft so that the engine clears the shaft. In my experience the cutlass bearing holds the prop shaft quite rigidly so the PSS faces remain parallel even when the flanges are separated and the prop shaft end is floating free, hence no leaks even if in the water.

The only reason for moving the SS bearing face of the PSS seal forward is to allow the prop shaft to move back further without compressing the PSS bellows so much. If you are pushing it as far back as possible then might as well just let it slide as far as the flange (if it will move freely). I guess you have to be careful you don't damage the O-ring seals between the prop shaft and the seal face.

Regards
Russ Peel
Avalon #150

With regard to Jerry's posting, specifically pictures 8 and 9, I am having a hard time picking the damper plate out of the picture. Am I missing something? Isn't the plate secured with allen head screws?

Also for us seniors - How much does the trans weigh? Can I easily lift it by myself ?


Thanks in Advance

Dave,
Correct!
The transmission is light enough for you to pick it up (both hands) . Remember to use this time to change and flush the transmission oil.
The damper plate is held with allen cap screws.
This is where you use the Lock Tite. I used 3/8 drive allen sockets to remove the screws and a torque wrench for the final tightening. I don't recall the spec, but I think it is in the other posts or look it up based on the size and grade of screw.
I have the Hurth Transmission manual including the rebuild instructions if you need it.
The manual does not mention the drive plate or the torque specs for the cap bolts.
Leigh Weiss

Brisa #155

Leigh! I'd like to offer to pay for a copy of the transmission repair manual. The currently quoted price is $125.00 and I can't find one for sale anywhere. Is this do-able? I can swap emails and addresses off forum if you'd like.
Al
S.V. Halona

Al,

I downloaded it from an internet URL I don't remember the location but have the PDF file. Let me have an e-mail address in a PM and I think I can include it in an answer.

Leigh Weiss

thanks to all. yes Russ, there was a miscommunication re: set screws, etc. Thanks for your advice, but I am not sure I can follow it. Since you are down-under, you have to flip your boat upside down (assuming the water is deep enough to not snag the mast. then loosening the set screws (of course turning right), allows the transmission to fall down (up?).

so, thanks anyway, but that sounds like too much trouble - our marina is only 8 feet deep.

dave

I started my damper replacement project today. I haven't raised the engine yet, but have the jack screw in place and ready to go. One observation I've made is that it doesn't seem to be necessary to do anything with the prop shaft flange or the dripless seal. When I separated the prop shaft from the transmission flange, inserting a small screw driver between them slid the entire prop shaft back may be 1/8" or so. It essentially just compressed the dripless seal bellows slightly. My guess is that is probably sufficient to raise the engine, but I haven't tried it yet.

Another observation regarding measuring the gap between the prop shaft flange and the transmission flange. After I removed the 4 bolts between the flanges, I wasn't able to fit a 0.002 feeler gauge between the 2 flanges at any point. After I separated the prop flange from the transmission, there appeared to be freedom to move the prop shaft up, down, left and right slightly. Is this normal? With some small lateral movement of the prop shaft, wouldn't the gap between the flanges always be nearly 0 all the way around unless there was a serious mis-alignment of the engine and prop shaft?

Gary I suspect that you may have some wear on your cutlass bearing. Try moving the shaft forward so that it is almost touching the transmission flange. Use your feeler gauge and measure the gap at the 12, 3,6 and 9 o'clock positions. If the gap is nearly equal, you should be ok.

Ken,

I used to check alignment with a .010" feeler gauge, pull shaft flange up to transmission flange to where it was feeler gauge distance at top and then checked with that feeler gauge all around.

Found using a much thinner (.002") almost paper-thin gauge gave much more accurate results. Pull shaft flange all the way up with no gap and then see if you can get the gauge in at any point on the perimeter.

Brett

Ken,

I suspect you are right about some wear on the cutlass bearing. How would I know when it needs to be replaced?

My plan as to checking alignment when I put this back together is to put 1 or 2 bolts through the prop flange and transmission flange without any nuts on them, then measure the gap all around the 2 flanges. As long as it is equal all around then things are square. Hopefully the engine will just drop back down in the same position it is now.

Thanks