I am intending to upgrade my original alternator (50amp) to a more powerful unit of 100 or 120 amps. I have not been able to find any posts other than a discussion of belt and pulley sizes.
I am interested to know what effect others have noticed on engine performance as I am told that high powered units can consume 3 to 4 hp. What effect does this have? Do you need to increse engine revs to obtain the same boat speed as with the factory fitted unit?
What experiences and advice do owners have on the type of alternators they have used and was major surgery needed for mounting modifications? My initial research points to the Balmar 621-100-SR-IG unit as a reasonable fit, they supply a bush to bridge the gap from the single foot unit to the 2" double foot engine bracket.
Any advice or experiences would be valuable.
Kachina #150
Sydney, Au.
Effect on Engine Performance of more powerful alternators
Moderator: KenKrawford
More powerful Alternator Install
Kachina,
Have you completed the installation of the more powerful alternator (Balmar 621-100-SR-IG)? I a eager to hear the results of the installation. Did you install it yourself and how simple was it? Did you have to change the belt for a different size? Did you realize a hit in boat speed with the drain of the engine to pull the new alternator? Do you realize a major improvement in your battery charging? Will you recommend this upgrade?
Look forward to your reporting, Thanks,
Nelson Gainey
Last Boat
C350 #345
Have you completed the installation of the more powerful alternator (Balmar 621-100-SR-IG)? I a eager to hear the results of the installation. Did you install it yourself and how simple was it? Did you have to change the belt for a different size? Did you realize a hit in boat speed with the drain of the engine to pull the new alternator? Do you realize a major improvement in your battery charging? Will you recommend this upgrade?
Look forward to your reporting, Thanks,
Nelson Gainey
Last Boat
C350 #345
-
Kachina
Effect on Engine Performance of more powerful alternators.
Nelson,
I have just completed the installation of the Balmar 621-100-SR-IG which I did myself. I had to change the drive pulley on the Balmar as the one it is fitted with was too wide for the belt which sat deep in the "V" and would have generated too much heat.
It really was a simple replacement although you do need to identify and tag the wires connected to the existing alternator before you remove it, to make sure that everything will work afterwards. The upper tensioning bracket is a little tricky to line up with one of the holes on the top of the alternator but you will find if you loosen both the lower bolts (the one on the alternator foot and the one behind it on the engine block) you will have sufficient movement to raise the alternator a little to locate one of the top holes. Make sure the belt is at least as tight as the instructions dictate or it will slip, the 100 amp unit provides considerably more resistance for the belt than the old unit. The instructions which come with the Balmar are pretty good but reading the circuit diagrams for the old alternator in the Westerbeke manual to identify the existing wires was a challenge. I am not sure which engine you have but mine is the Westerbeke M35B (which is really a Japanese 'Kubota' unit marinised by Westerbeke) and has a 51 amp Korean made 'Mando' alternator fitted as standard.
I also fitted a Balmar smart regulator MC 612 at the same time to optimise the output from the new alternator. Unfortunately, this unit failed within the first few hours and I had to disconnect it and use the alternator's internal regulator until I received the warranty replacement. The failure caused the regulator to allow charge voltage from the regulator thru unregulated and at 2000RPM this was 15.6 volts which will eventually cook most batteries, expecially my Lifeline AGMs. Fortunately I noticed the problem immediately and shut down the motor until I completed the switch to the internal regulator.
I have just received the replacement Smart Reg and intend to fit and test it this week. It will then get a good workout as I am bringing Kachina back from the Barrier Reef to Sydney this month (2000nm).
Whilst I do not have the complete pictue yet on the impact on battery charging the effect on engine performance has been minimal. I probably run the engine about 1-200rpm faster now to achieve the same boat speed but I have always had rpm to spare. I use the standard three blade 15R9 prop and with a clean bottom would achieve 6.5kts in moderate wind and sea conditions. I now run the motor at closer to 2500rpm for the same speed but she will still hit 7kts at 2800rpm.
I will let you know about the impact on battery bank charging when I get some data on the return trip. Incidently, I have 585 amp hours of battery capacity which I mostly run as a single bank although I have the option to isolate 105 amp hrs for engine starting if I choose to.
Trevor D'Alton
Kachina
#150
I have just completed the installation of the Balmar 621-100-SR-IG which I did myself. I had to change the drive pulley on the Balmar as the one it is fitted with was too wide for the belt which sat deep in the "V" and would have generated too much heat.
It really was a simple replacement although you do need to identify and tag the wires connected to the existing alternator before you remove it, to make sure that everything will work afterwards. The upper tensioning bracket is a little tricky to line up with one of the holes on the top of the alternator but you will find if you loosen both the lower bolts (the one on the alternator foot and the one behind it on the engine block) you will have sufficient movement to raise the alternator a little to locate one of the top holes. Make sure the belt is at least as tight as the instructions dictate or it will slip, the 100 amp unit provides considerably more resistance for the belt than the old unit. The instructions which come with the Balmar are pretty good but reading the circuit diagrams for the old alternator in the Westerbeke manual to identify the existing wires was a challenge. I am not sure which engine you have but mine is the Westerbeke M35B (which is really a Japanese 'Kubota' unit marinised by Westerbeke) and has a 51 amp Korean made 'Mando' alternator fitted as standard.
I also fitted a Balmar smart regulator MC 612 at the same time to optimise the output from the new alternator. Unfortunately, this unit failed within the first few hours and I had to disconnect it and use the alternator's internal regulator until I received the warranty replacement. The failure caused the regulator to allow charge voltage from the regulator thru unregulated and at 2000RPM this was 15.6 volts which will eventually cook most batteries, expecially my Lifeline AGMs. Fortunately I noticed the problem immediately and shut down the motor until I completed the switch to the internal regulator.
I have just received the replacement Smart Reg and intend to fit and test it this week. It will then get a good workout as I am bringing Kachina back from the Barrier Reef to Sydney this month (2000nm).
Whilst I do not have the complete pictue yet on the impact on battery charging the effect on engine performance has been minimal. I probably run the engine about 1-200rpm faster now to achieve the same boat speed but I have always had rpm to spare. I use the standard three blade 15R9 prop and with a clean bottom would achieve 6.5kts in moderate wind and sea conditions. I now run the motor at closer to 2500rpm for the same speed but she will still hit 7kts at 2800rpm.
I will let you know about the impact on battery bank charging when I get some data on the return trip. Incidently, I have 585 amp hours of battery capacity which I mostly run as a single bank although I have the option to isolate 105 amp hrs for engine starting if I choose to.
Trevor D'Alton
Kachina
#150
-
Kachina
Effect on Engine Performance of more powerful alternators.
Nelson,
I forgot to mention a most important item.
I needed to run a new, heavy duty, cable from the positive post on the new alternator right back to the rotary switch under the chart table. The additional amperage generated by the new alternator will melt the existing cable. I used the same diameter cable as is used to connect the batteries to the switch and had my chandler swage on ring connectors for me as I do not have a swaging tool that big. Routing the cable it tricky and you will need someone to help you with threading it through. The route I used was from the alternator under the floor into the aft end of the bilge (you can follow an existing set of cables), then into the locker behind the battery compartment and then behind the switch panel (REMEMBER TO DISCONNECT THE BATTERIES BEFORE YOU BEGIN). I used a wire clothes-hanger to help navigate through areas I couldn't see into, taping the cable to the end and pulling it through as necessary
This alternator also requires an independant ground (hence the IG in the model #). I used a short strap from the negative post on the alternator which I then attached to the bolt head which connects the alternator bracket to the engine block.
Trevor D'Alton
Kachina
#150
I forgot to mention a most important item.
I needed to run a new, heavy duty, cable from the positive post on the new alternator right back to the rotary switch under the chart table. The additional amperage generated by the new alternator will melt the existing cable. I used the same diameter cable as is used to connect the batteries to the switch and had my chandler swage on ring connectors for me as I do not have a swaging tool that big. Routing the cable it tricky and you will need someone to help you with threading it through. The route I used was from the alternator under the floor into the aft end of the bilge (you can follow an existing set of cables), then into the locker behind the battery compartment and then behind the switch panel (REMEMBER TO DISCONNECT THE BATTERIES BEFORE YOU BEGIN). I used a wire clothes-hanger to help navigate through areas I couldn't see into, taping the cable to the end and pulling it through as necessary
This alternator also requires an independant ground (hence the IG in the model #). I used a short strap from the negative post on the alternator which I then attached to the bolt head which connects the alternator bracket to the engine block.
Trevor D'Alton
Kachina
#150
High Output Alternator Installation
Trevor,
I really appreciate this information detailing the installation of the high output alternator and its effect on engine performance. Do you have other means of charging batteries while at anchor (Genset)? What is your battery environment (585 AH) and how do you isolate the 105 AH for starting?
Bringing Kachina back from the Barrier Reef to Sydney sounds like a fantastic trip, I sure would like to hear more about it on your return.
Again I thank you for this information and have a safe and fun trip.
Nelson Gainey
Last Boat
C350 #345
I really appreciate this information detailing the installation of the high output alternator and its effect on engine performance. Do you have other means of charging batteries while at anchor (Genset)? What is your battery environment (585 AH) and how do you isolate the 105 AH for starting?
Bringing Kachina back from the Barrier Reef to Sydney sounds like a fantastic trip, I sure would like to hear more about it on your return.
Again I thank you for this information and have a safe and fun trip.
Nelson Gainey
Last Boat
C350 #345
-
Kachina
Effect on Engine Performance of more powerful alternators.
Nelson,
Having now completed the first couple of hundred miles of our return trip to Sydney I can report that I am very pleased with the significant improvement in the charging of my battery banks with the combination of the Balmar charger and smart regulator.
Allowing for the inherant inaccuracy of the measuring instruments I am replacing approximately 250 Ah of charge in less than four hours of motor sailing at an average engine rpm of about 2200. The regulator then steps back to a float charge of 13.3 amps.
With the previous equipment the batteries never reached full charge even after 12 hours of continuous motoring. For those of us with large battery banks and high power needs I can recommend the upgrade.
You asked a couple of questions in your last post. I do not have a genset but I have two 50 watt solar panels mounted on top of the hard dodger (I took that factory option and have been very pleased with it) with its own smart regulator. This delivers about 6 amps max in the reliable Aussie sun and keeps the batteries topped up when at anchor.
My battery bank is divided into two sections. 480 Ah for house use configured as four Lifeline AGM 6 volt units wired as two 12 volt batteries. These 6 volt units fit into the existing battery locker with their additional height being accommodated by cutting notches in the existing wooden retaining bars. The second section consists of a single 105 Ah Lifeline battery which sits in the aft corner of the long port salon locker. I constructed a box for the battery from 15mm ply which I glassed into the locker floor. This battery is wired to the forward of the two rotary switches under the chart table (the on/off one). The 480 Ah section is wired to the remaining four position switch. I almost always run all the batteries as a single bank with the two switches set at BOTH and ON. On the rare occasions when I feel I may need to preserve the 105 amp hours for engine starting I switch the fourway switch to 2 and the two-way to OFF.
Hope this helps. If anything is unclear let me know. In the meantime I await these SE trades abating so I can continue my journey South.
Trevor D'Alton
Kachina
#150
Having now completed the first couple of hundred miles of our return trip to Sydney I can report that I am very pleased with the significant improvement in the charging of my battery banks with the combination of the Balmar charger and smart regulator.
Allowing for the inherant inaccuracy of the measuring instruments I am replacing approximately 250 Ah of charge in less than four hours of motor sailing at an average engine rpm of about 2200. The regulator then steps back to a float charge of 13.3 amps.
With the previous equipment the batteries never reached full charge even after 12 hours of continuous motoring. For those of us with large battery banks and high power needs I can recommend the upgrade.
You asked a couple of questions in your last post. I do not have a genset but I have two 50 watt solar panels mounted on top of the hard dodger (I took that factory option and have been very pleased with it) with its own smart regulator. This delivers about 6 amps max in the reliable Aussie sun and keeps the batteries topped up when at anchor.
My battery bank is divided into two sections. 480 Ah for house use configured as four Lifeline AGM 6 volt units wired as two 12 volt batteries. These 6 volt units fit into the existing battery locker with their additional height being accommodated by cutting notches in the existing wooden retaining bars. The second section consists of a single 105 Ah Lifeline battery which sits in the aft corner of the long port salon locker. I constructed a box for the battery from 15mm ply which I glassed into the locker floor. This battery is wired to the forward of the two rotary switches under the chart table (the on/off one). The 480 Ah section is wired to the remaining four position switch. I almost always run all the batteries as a single bank with the two switches set at BOTH and ON. On the rare occasions when I feel I may need to preserve the 105 amp hours for engine starting I switch the fourway switch to 2 and the two-way to OFF.
Hope this helps. If anything is unclear let me know. In the meantime I await these SE trades abating so I can continue my journey South.
Trevor D'Alton
Kachina
#150
-
LONGHAWK
Alternator upgrade - wiring
Trevor. I too am about to replace my alternator with a higher output model. I have essentially the same set-up as you- 4 6volt T-225"s and a start battery. What gauge wire did you run from the alternator output to the common post of the 1/2/both switch? You indicated in a previous post that you used the same size as the battery connections.
Sam
LONGHAWK #173
Houston, Texas
Sam
LONGHAWK #173
Houston, Texas
-
Kachina
Effect on Engine Performance of more powerful
Sam,
Sorry for the delayed response, I have been overseas for a couple of months.
You asked about the guage of the wire I used for the alternator output line. I am not sure how to describe it other than it being the same size as the existing connections from the rotary switch to the batteries. The rating system in Australia uses a different method to describe cable size so giving you that would not mean much to you.
By the way, the independant ground strap must also be the same cable size or the alternator will not charge.
Let me know how you go with the installation.
Trevor
Kachina
#150
Sorry for the delayed response, I have been overseas for a couple of months.
You asked about the guage of the wire I used for the alternator output line. I am not sure how to describe it other than it being the same size as the existing connections from the rotary switch to the batteries. The rating system in Australia uses a different method to describe cable size so giving you that would not mean much to you.
By the way, the independant ground strap must also be the same cable size or the alternator will not charge.
Let me know how you go with the installation.
Trevor
Kachina
#150
-
LONGHAWK
ground strap size
Are you indicating that the ground from the alternator body to some point (I assume a point on the engine) needs to be full gauge battery cable?
By the way, I did run a new full sized battery cable from the alternator output to the battery switch. It was rather a chore snaking that over)
Sam
LONGHAWK #173
By the way, I did run a new full sized battery cable from the alternator output to the battery switch. It was rather a chore snaking that over)
Sam
LONGHAWK #173
-
Kachina
Ground strap size.
Yes, full guage battery cable or close to it. I used a much lighter strap initially and the unit would not output a charge. I consulted a marine electrician and he diagnosed the problem as insufficient current carrying capacity to ground. I can't remember exactly where I attached the strap to the engine without going down to the boat to take a look but any convenient large bolt will do
Trevor
Kachina #150
Trevor
Kachina #150
-
LONGHAWK
alternator hassle
Well , I'll have been installing (on a slow pace) a new alternator on the boat. I went with the ProLine 100 amp from emarine. I installed a new heavy gauge wire from the output to the battery switch- Good. I installed the new voltage regulator and routed the wiring harness carefully. -Good. Then, I tried to physically install the new regulator. -BAD. Even after loosening both bolts on the foot (pivot and bracket attachment) the new one will not fit. The fan hits the upper adjustment bracket. I am worn out.
Anyone else succesfully done this? I will speak to the emarine folks tomorrow, but it is now too late to get the system sorted out prior to an offshore regatta.
Such is the life of a sailor!
Anyone else succesfully done this? I will speak to the emarine folks tomorrow, but it is now too late to get the system sorted out prior to an offshore regatta.
Such is the life of a sailor!
-
LONGHAWK
alternator upgrade
Well,I finally completed my upgrade. The Pro-line kit from E-marine was sent back to them It really was not a good fit. They were very accommodating. After discussion, they obtained a Balmar 621-70 alternator and provided it to me (even though they do not normally carry Balmar-nice service).
The 621 fits / works well. I used a Balmar external regulator also.
There is a good write-up on the Catalina 36 site with great pix and wiring guidance that really explains this setup.
The 621 fits / works well. I used a Balmar external regulator also.
There is a good write-up on the Catalina 36 site with great pix and wiring guidance that really explains this setup.