Winterizing

[belladonna]

This is my first season with my 2005 Catalina 350 (#368) and I am looking for any and all winterizing tips. I'm looking for info on all aspects of winterizing the 350 not just the engine but there is no Forum for just winterizing. All info and references will be greatly appreciated. Thanx, Jim

[wolfe10]

Part of that will depend on how cold it gets/what part of the world you are in.

As far as engine: Close through hull. Remove hose from through hull. Place in a bucket. Start engine with raw water system picking up 50/50 coolant/water. When a second person sees coolant instead of water coming out of exhaust, the engine is finished.

It is a good idea to store with clean oil, full diesel tank to minimize condensation, a biocide in the fuel and if in very cold temperatures with summer grade #2 diesel, add an anti-gel and run it enough to circulate.

Potable water system and head basically the same-- but use potable antifreeze. Add only after you have drained the tanks and system.

Pour some of the same potable antifreeze in the sinks if there are P traps. Same for head after draining holding tank-- pump some potable antifreeze through until there is a little in the holding tank.

Depending on temperature, remove batteries or if not extreme cold AND you have some means of charging them, you can leave them in place. A discharged battery WILL freeze and even if it doesn't, storing it deeply discharged materially shortens their life.

BTW, the potable antifreeze (RV antifreeze) as well as anti-gel are at Walmarts, etc. Biocide at marine store.

That should get you started-- I am sure others will add to the list.

Brett

[R.B.]

Also before running anti-freeze through your water system, disconnect the hoses to the hot water tank at the manifolds in the bilge, attach an additional hose to the same connections on the manifolds to create a bypass. drain the hot water tank, at the tank. Don't put anti freeze in the hot water tank. If it has been drained, it will be fine. Now you can add anti freeze to the main water tanks and run through all the sinks. Don't forget the stern wash down .

Also pour some antifreeze into your fridge and drain it through the foot pump under the galley sink.

Also run some through your auto bilge pump

[jking]

Hi,
Here is my personal checklist. May not be complete, but its a start. We put antifreeze into the water tank and pump it into the various taps, using the bypass on the hot water tank to get antifreeze into the hot water lines.

The drain for the hot water tank is not at the bottom of the tank. Our Catalina 30 was the same design (drain not in the bottom of the tank). For 5 years it worked fine just draining the tank, then one year the tank split in half. So now we always put antifreeze in the hot water tank, however its very annoying to do since you drain the tank of as much water as you can, then put antifreeze in but because the drain is not in the bottom you have to keep draining it until the concentration of antifreeze increases. Then in the spring you can't drain the antifreeze out, and the water is foamy. Last year it took until October, the week before lift out before the water was no longer foamy. I told the guys who make the hot water tank its a pain to do all this but they don't understand as they live in a warm climate and don't get it. I think it is the single worst design feature on the boat not being able to drain the tank. I think I may hook up a garden hose to the drain this year so I don't have to struggle so much to drain it.
Jan #303

[belladonna]

Thanx to all 3 of you, that's great information and I feel comfortable now in winterizing the 350 myself. I used to winterize my 1988 Pearson 31 II but the 350 has a lot more systems.

jking - I really like your ckecklist but could you expand a little more on the paragraph "Move hot water intake valve ...................................... so it is ready for spring". I thought we wnated to keep antifreeze out of the hot water tank??

Any other tips will be greatly appreciated. I sail out of Deltaville, VA on the lower Chesapeake Bay. Jim Lassiter BELLE DONNA

[yodagwb]

FWIW I use a small 12v air compressor to blow the water lines and the HW heater clear prior to running the antifreeze thru. I use the cold water manifold as the air injection point. Can typically winterize with about 5 gallons of anti freeze. Don't forget to throw some in the bilge pump and shower bilge pump and remove or loosen the drain screw for the bilge check valve. The shower heads are a problem so remove (unscrew) them from the diverter and push the flow lever to drain. When the boat is pulled open the thur hulls to drain any water between your point of adding anti freeze and the thru hull, i.e.. thru hull to strainer hose. Then you can spent the winter questioning what you forgot.

[R.B.]

One of the reasons to keep the anti freeze out of the hot water tank, is because it takes a lot too flush it clear of the anti freeze in the spring time. The taste and the foaming of the anti freeze in the water takes quite a lot of flushing before it is removed. I therefore put in a bypass loop when I am winterizing the rest of the system and just drain the hot water tank.

[steve11]

RE: Winterizing the fresh water system. I spoke with Warren (tech support in FL). He tells me there is a petcock someplace near the manifold to drain the entire fresh water system negating any need to use any "pink antifreeze". He recommends draining the hot water heater separately.

Has anyone used this method with success?

[dpaulo]

For what it is worth, I do not put antifreeze in my potable water system (as it takes forever to get rid of it during our sailing season on the northern Chesapeake Bay). I do open the relief valve and drain at the hot water tank, open both the hot and cold drains at the manifold in the bilge area open the faucets and shower heads (including the deck shower) in a middle position (both hot & cold lines open), and then drain into the sump. I then remove the filter cap from my water pressure pump and leave it open in case there is trapped water in the sytem. I finish by blowing pressurized air through as many lines as I can (from the manifold).

I may be just lucky, but have done it this way since 2005 and have had no problems. I still use lots of pink stuff for motor, bilge, shower drain, head. A few years ago I installed a T-valve in the inlet line of the fresh water system (between the through-hull and the strainer filter) that has made the job much easier. dan

[sailorbob]

It gets cold enough in the Chesapeake that the thought of not using non-tox in the potable water system would scare me. It just takes a little water in a valve or a low spot in the system that didn't drain to cause problems. While it is true that purging all the pink stuff out of the system is a pain in the spring, there is much to be said for peace of mind. The technical guy at our dealer developed a winterizing kit that works great: it's a 5 gallon paint bucket with a small bilge pump in the bottom, a valve out the side and a variety of hoses. He has assembled fittings that attach to every point in the system that needs winterizing - engine, head, water system, A/C. Particularly for the water system, the kit attaches to the side of the water pump under the galley sink. Running the water then draws non-tox out of the bucket as I open each of the faucets - in order, galley sink, head sink, shower, transom shower - each hot and cold - until pink stuff comes out of each. The kit includes a bypass to connect the cold and hot water manifolds in the bilge, so that I am not trying to fill the water heater with non-tox. I drain the water heater (open the petcock and the pressure relief valve, and leave them open all winter). The head, water system and engine all draw non-tox out of the bucket with their own pumps, but to avoid running the A/C pump dry, that's what the bilge pump in the bucket is for. I use -60 for everything but the engine and A/C, which gets -100.

I don't know of any petcock in the system near the manifolds.

The one thing I haven't had luck with is draining the checkvalve in the bilge pump, so I run a lot of non-tox through it.

Good luck.

Bob Fine
Second Wind, hull 301

[jking]

Don't put plumbing antifreeze in the heat exchanger when winterizing or the green antifreeze (non toxic engine antifreeze) in the engine, they are not made to work with aluminium or copper and will corrode the inside of the engine.

In previous years I tried to be more environmental and used the non toxic antifreeze in the engine only to corrode the aluminium and cause a coolant leak internal to the engine.

Now I only use the diesel antifreeze in the engine and in the heat exchanger for winterizing as it does not corrode. Learned the hard way.

On the hot and cold manifolds there is a spare valve which can be used to drain them. Use the diamond shaped key which is tied to the manifold to open them.
Jan #303

[ldirubbo]

I use the standard pink stuff for the water system but a friend of mine goes out and buys the cheapest vodka he can find and uses that to winterize his water system, I have not had the courage to try it but it seems to work for him here in NJ. No pink stuff to worry about when draining it in the spring and if anything is left behind, who cares.

[DuncanMcMillan]

I may have missed this but can someone recommend a flushing procedure for the engine coolant. In getting the engine ready for winter it looked like there was some crud when I removed the manifold pressure cap and I'd like to get rid of it now rather than later.
The coolant recover tank level is still good but the connection may be plugged.

[wolfe10]

First thing to do is determine what the "crud" is. Is it oil-- a sign of perhaps a head gasket problem?

How old is the coolant?

To flush, it is basically like any other coolant system. Drain, add water, open air bleeds, run engine to circulate. Repeat until the effluent is pretty clean. If you need to use a cooling system cleaner, this is when to do it. I would contact your engine maker for their recommendation on what cleaner is compatible with your engine/heat exchanger. Follow directions on the cleaner.

Then flush with water until clear-- running engine, bleeding air pockets, etc. Use distilled water for last rinse, then add 1/2 system capacity in coolant concentrate.

Brett

[DuncanMcMillan]

Thanks Brett it looks like Dex cool sludge and I'll maybe try some Rydlime to clean it out. The first drain looked ok and I'll flush tomorrow. I want to check the zinc end of HE first.
The coolant was from 2012. Not many hours on it.
I have attached a link to an article on Universal HE's which I found interesting and helpful.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger

[wolfe10]

Duncan,

Might be a good time to pull the heat exchanger and use some acid to boil out the raw water side. Use new end plate gaskets.

Brett

[tranquilcat42]

Awesome information all in one place! Thanks to all - this is valuable information! A couple of questions:

Does anti-gel = "Store and Start" type products?

Transmission - ? The engine manual states to fill the trans case for the winter and then syphon out to the appropriate level before using for the spring.

Engine antifreeze - WOW this is the first time I've heard such. How ironic that the antifreeze mandated for boats corrodes them. I guess will need to investigate if can use diesel engine antifreeze IF pump out while on land before launched into the water. Will need to figure out how to catch/dispose of properly

Owner antifreeze - to launch antifreeze protection during non sailing/winter season in Chicago: "Dark N Stormy" Dark Rum, Ginger Beer, Lime

Teri
Tranquil

[wolfe10]

Does anti-gel = "Store and Start" type products?

Teri
Tranquil

OK, for storing diesel in cold climates:

If you filled in the summer or fall, you got straight #2 diesel. It can gel in below freezing temperatures. Walmart, etc all carry Anti-gels for diesel. PS is a popular brand. If you buy diesel in the winter in cold climates (at least at truck stops and other places that turn over their diesel), it is a mix of #2 and #1 diesel with lower gel point.

I also add a biocide such as Biobor JF if diesel is to be stored over a couple of months. Any marine store will have it-- our Academy even carries it.

Also, fill the diesel tank to minimize condensation. As you burn diesel from the tank, that volume is replaced by air-- at whatever temperature and humidity you are motoring in. Drop the temperature 50 degrees and the moisture in that air will condense. And each day as it warms and then cools, the tank "breaths", bringing in more outside air and condensing out the moisture. Bottom line-- minimize the volume of air in your fuel system.

Lastly, after you add the anti-gel and biocide, run the engine long enough that they have circulated through the fuel system.

Brett

[AynB]

Something's been bugging me about some of the recent posts. I may need some clarification here, but I did some research and wanted to share. The topic is the pH of antifreeze, vodka, seawater.
A couple of posters have said that "plumbers antifreeze" is acidic . My question is this: is what you are calling "plumbers antifreeze" the same stuff as RV/Marine non-tox antifreeze?

Here's why I ask: Just looked up the MSDS of Dow's Non-Tox Antifreeze and it has a pH of 8.5 to 11 - clearly Alkaline not acidic. Just looked up the pH of Vodka (generic), which is 6.0 to 7.0 , a bit on the acid side. Seawater is 7.5 to 8.4 , a bit on the alkaline side. Of the three, the Vodka should be imbibed and not used to acid etch the insides of your engine and freshwater systems, not that it will do much etching.

There is some rumbling that the Non-Tox will "not protect" aluminum - this topic I can't address.

So, Green , Pink or Orange - Your choice, but I am sticking with the non toxic to winterize the systems, whatever the color.
Salut!

{ purely a coincidence, after I posted this message, I checked my email and there is a posting from Practical Sailor, with instructions to "With the engine running, remove the hose and pour a non-toxic antifreeze into the water strainer. When the exhaust becomes a consistent color (usually pink), all the water has been displaced." } al

[jking]

Engine Loop - For engine coolant antifreeze, I used the green stuff which was non-toxic, but it ate away at the aluminium inside the engine so now I only use the diesel antifreeze which is normally red.

Raw Water Loop - When putting anti freeze in the engine heat exchanger loop just be careful that antifreeze can be used with copper. The plumbers antifreeze I purchased said "not for use with copper", I noticed you can buy different types, and some can be used with copper. So read the label is the lesson.

Jan King#303