Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

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wolfe10
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Location: League City, Texas

Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by wolfe10 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:17 pm

Yes, you would likely make better time in Hawk Channel assuming favorable wind direction to sail it.

BUT (big BUT) be sure to figure out where you can spend the night-- From Channel 5 (the high bridge you will use to go from Gulf to Atlantic side of the keys) to Cape Florida where you can reasonably head back to safe anchorages or marinas is over 70 NM. Too far for a daylight sail.

Others may know of places to safely overnight on the Atlantic side on that stretch-- I do not as we take the ICW, enjoying lots of safe calm anchorages on the way up. Last trip was a little less than a year ago and never ran aground.
Brett Wolfe
C350 #180
"Vindaloo"
League City, TX

Triumph
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Triumph » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:02 am

Hey Fifty. Bill Cullen here from Apollo Beach area just a little north of Snead. Next time at Big Pass go on Sarasota Yacht Club website and look up "Flat Earth Society". They have the latest details of the pass. Otherwise, Longboat would be best when you leave Snead.

I'll be at the St Petersburg Boat Show Dec 5-Dec 8 in case you are in town. I'm giving several talks, some about the Bahamas. If you are planning to sail over there with limited experience, you might want to catch me.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here so far. That's what so good about owning a C350. You get fantastic help from the Pod.

I think you have to decide if you want to make a "delivery" or a "cruise". A delivery might be non-stop, or one stop, and you'd get to Titisville in as little as 72 hours if everything goes your way. A delivery capt might jump out in the gulf stream and you'd see 8-9+ knots overground up the coast of Florida. Brunswick Georgia at 9 knots is about another day away.

A cruise where you stop every night and go inside part of the time might take you 2+ weeks. In this instance, hiring a captain like Bruce on Assuie Mate would more than pay for himself. Plus you'd have the comfort with a guy that knows the boat and has lots of experience.

As your time frame gets more squeezed (jan 17 deadlline) the trip gets more difficult. If you planned a "delivery" between Dec 27 and Jan 17 you'd have the windows to make a smooth trip.

Bill on TRIUMPH

.

Fiftybucks
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Fiftybucks » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:40 am

so much good info... thank you Bill

I would love to catch that presentation but we are flying out on xmas eve. I have seen the Apollo beach signs every trip down to Palmetto/Bradenton.

wife said NO to delivery schedule. we have to stop at least a few places and hopefully fireworks near Key Largo.
Marathon ? Fuel there? which marinas do you favor? on the Hawks side?

should i not take the government cut and the ICW from there, or wait until further up the coast.
real question is How Much Slower is taking the ICW. I love the time 72 and another day up to Brunswick. that is the info i need.

so the plan might be to get to titusville, fly back from Orlando, go back out Jan 14, and head up not stopping but perhaps solo..

by the way... we purchased in July... still no CG doc vessel returned... so still has 'Cheers'. It has been checked as of Oct, 9th but no actual doc returned..
Cheers Hull #380 (Infinity) new CG DV name

Triumph
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Triumph » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:02 pm

OK, a cruise and not a delivery.

Intercoastal waterway, figure on 40 miles per day on average. I strongly suggest you have the Waterway Guide for this trip. Get it now and start reading.

In Marathon, Faro Blanco on the north side is very nice. Around the ocean side, there are 3-4 marinas plus the Marathon City mooring field if you have a dink. Reservations are strongly suggested this time of year for the marinas. The mooring field does not accept reservations.

If it were me, I might have a lovely cruise down the Gulf Coast with my wife and enjoy Marathon for a few days. Then, exchange the wife for two salty sailors and meet the wife in St Augustine. At that point, get rid of the men and bring your bride back aboard from a wonderful leisurely cruise up the ICW to Brunswick. Go outside from St Aug to Jax Bch if the weather is good.

Salty sailors and you go non stop Marathon to St Augustine. You jump in the Gulf Stream and average 8 or more knots, arriving St Augustine in <60 hours.
There isn't much to see between Miami and Daytona. It can be interesting but St Augustine, Cumberland Island, Ferandina, St Mary's and on up are really nice. Cold, but nice.

If it's just the two of you, go the ICW but maybe plan on an over nighter on the outside if the weather is real nice. Don't do two in a row, but every couple of days jump out and make some good time for 28 hours (8AM to 5PM the next day). You might make 150 miles a day this way.

The back side of the Keys is very nice, and offers some protected anchorages and nice scenery. Once up towards Miami, Angelfish Creek is nice, Elliot Key is nice, and the Hurricane Hole are all good stops. From there, make it to Bahia Mar Marina in Ft Lauderdale or hop outside & keep going overnight to Ft Pierce. Go inside or outside from there on up. Read the Waterway Guide about the inlets. Some are good, others are harry. There is also a place in the ICW south of St Augustine where the current runs 5 knots at times.

To do the ICW, You could contact Tom Hale and see if he has a guide for sale or recommends one. In my opinion, he's the expert and can give you some good tips. I also know that Carolyn Shearlock is leaving Marathon mid Dec and heading north. She be a great person to shadow. See her website, The Boat Galley. Just google these folks for their contact info.

I'm back in town the 30th of Dec. If I can give you a hand let me know.

Best of luck

Bill on TRIUMPH

wolfe10
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by wolfe10 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:57 pm

OK, so a lot of speculation on water depth.

So, please let us know if you have the wing keel or standard/deep draft keel.

Certainly my comments ASSUMED a wing keel (4'6").
Brett Wolfe
C350 #180
"Vindaloo"
League City, TX

Fiftybucks
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Fiftybucks » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:31 am

wing keel 4-6
please remember i am a little sensitive as i have previously run aground in Big Pass Sarasota
i contacted Carolyn Shearlock via email... from her web site she seems to have a wealth of knowledge.
Cheers Hull #380 (Infinity) new CG DV name

SeaBreeze
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by SeaBreeze » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:00 am

Fifty
I’ve followed this thread with interest since my wife and I have made the trip on several occasions. The advice you are getting is sound. In your 12/3 post you asked what appears to me to be a rhetorical question about going inside at government cut and taking the ICW. I don’t see any comments in the thread about the 50 mile section of the ICW from Ft Lauderdale to Lake Worth. You will not be able to do this segment in one long day. There are numerous bridges with restricted opening times that will slow you down. Unless weather prohibits try to go offshore at least from government cut to Lake Worth Inlet. That alone will save you a day of frustration.

Also, remember the most dangerous thing on a boat is a schedule.

Best wishes. Dress warm, we do have cold fronts that bring lows in the 30’s and 40’s with strong winds from time to time along your route.Tourist Bureau tries to keep that a secret.

Rick
Sea Breeze
Tampa Bay
Rick Parish
Sea Breeze

wolfe10
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by wolfe10 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:30 am

Agree with Rick. Ft Lauderdale to W Palm is a full day in the ICW. Not that many miles, but many many "timed opening" bridges.

And rarely is the timing from one to the next timed for sail boats.

You WILL be worn out.

Brett
Brett Wolfe
C350 #180
"Vindaloo"
League City, TX

Fiftybucks
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:10 pm
Location: Idaho, and Cheers

Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Fiftybucks » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:19 pm

we have acquired some waterproof light foul weather gear. plus some fleece layers.
hoping we will need them until north of JAX..

the inside ICW thru the keys sounds most peaceful water but a little more time consuming and stressful as far as depths and watchful navigation.
my wife will be assisting at the helm, but she kind is afraid of the narrow channels. then again so am i.

our new contact in marathon is heading out dec 15th so we not be able to shadow that boat.
hopefully there will be no lack of other boat traffic in the keys which will by itself guide passage.

we have now a laptop with Open CPN, and an iPad mini with Aquamap. the Ipad is not our choice of backup as the aquamap app runs continuous in the background and taps the battery rapidly, and our data plan megs, as well. not sure why. the laptop will run Open CPN all day without any issue.
we have the Raymarine e80s at the helm and below. radar, but not sure how to use or what we are seeing on the screen. we do now know that the master has to be set at the helm station and a written procedure as to startup. no more 'no data' at the helm ever again. Also.. we plan to just be cautious, only traveling during daylight to the the previously mentioned crab/lobster pots, but there may be an overnight, where the course is offshore a way, and good weather.

i have also stocked extra alternator belts, and fuel filters. sail repair tape.

totally different subject...
the boat yard air cond person has suggested running the condensate to the bilge and not to the thru hull. said something about corrosive saltwater getting back flow to the unit... i told him OK but plug it and leave the existing hose in case i want it reconnected. suggestions? Bilge or Thru Hull?
Cheers Hull #380 (Infinity) new CG DV name

wolfe10
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: League City, Texas

Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by wolfe10 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:12 pm

A/C condensate drain tray should be well below the level of the evaporator pan. If so, very unlikely that water would "back up" into the evaporator pan.

But, if you are concerned, a better answer than having a full time "wet bilge" is to install a ball valve in the condensate line that you would close if in heavy weather/high heel conditions. If you do this. put a tag on the A.C. switch to open before turning on the A.C.

Only other comment is to NOT use boats in front of you as a nav aid, or at best assume they are brand new boaters who have no idea what they are doing. Said another way, YOU are the captain of your boat and need to be comfortable that YOU can keep it, you and your crew safe.

If in doubt, hire a delivery captain or person with a reasonable amount of experience! Use it as a learning experience. That is EXACTLY what Dianne and I did on our first overnight offshore sailing trip back in 1991- had a retired Navy friend go with us. A valuable learning experience and well worth the cost of his transportation.
Brett Wolfe
C350 #180
"Vindaloo"
League City, TX

Aussie Mate
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Aussie Mate » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:24 am

Have also done the trip, but in reverse, Brunswick, GA to Pensacola via Tampa.We took the Drake Channel and had no problems, but we were heading SW and not NE. Too few entries to get out of wether on that route. Have also done some of the inside route down to Largo with no issues of depth, never touched, not really close. Friends with us in a C42 touched once or twice but just a loving touch! Good idea to do just days and no nights. I agree with Brett that your first overnights might be best with someone who has done that before. Will build confidence. Good luck!
Bruce Whyte
s/v Aussie Mate
C350 #357

nybor
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by nybor » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:26 pm

Hi. Did the trip from Merritt Island (Cocoa) to Venice years ago. The weather was iffy so went the IWC way. (by the way there were 42 bridges!) Anyway did the close in passage and had zero problems with depths. Just stay in the channel!!!

Ok ok, so I lied. When bringing the boat in the channel (20 kts winds), my buddy wanted to discuss celestial navigation and had a sextant for me to look at.... I started to look at it and saw a red day marker coming up. Like an idiot, I went into racing mode and felt I HAD to ROUND the mark. Not good. We went aground (sand) and after dropping the sails, we could walk the anchor out up wind (it was 4 feet deep at low tide) and waited only 45 minutes until the boat floated again. Off we went.

So, as others have stated, stay in middle of the channel markers and you will be fine - even at low tide.

dave

Fiftybucks
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Fiftybucks » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:11 pm

I got a plan... going thru Seven Mile to Hawks Stops:

Palmetto
Venice - marina
Sanibel
Pavilion
Marathon - marina
Key Largo new years eve
Biscayne
PalmBeach?
but i cant find a way back in the ICW at Lake Worth...you mean Palm Beach? that would be on New Years

then the ICW 8 days up to whereever we can get by the 7th.... Titusville.
Cheers Hull #380 (Infinity) new CG DV name

wolfe10
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by wolfe10 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:13 pm

Fiftybucks wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:11 pm
I got a plan... going thru Seven Mile to Hawks Stops:

Palmetto Inside
Venice - marina Inside 36.7 NM (OK)
Sanibel Inside 55.3 NM only doable dawn to dark if you are really humping
Pavilion 69 NM (not doable dawn to dark). Never been in there-- we anchor off Little Shark or go up Little Shark a little way up Little Shark if lumpy seas. Sanibel to Marco Island and then Marco to Little Shark more doable
Marathon - marina 65 NM (not doable dawn to dark). Maybe you could leave in the dark but would NOT want to come into Marathon after dark-- and LOTS of crab traps to dodge). Do you have reservations in Marathon-- I am shocked you can get them that time of year
Key Largo new years eve Have to do Card Sound entrance and 70 NM. Not doable dawn to dark and a very restricted channel on both ends.
Biscayne OK
PalmBeach? Outside only way to do that in a day-- Cape FL (No Name Harbor) to Lake Worth Inlet and into the anchorage just to the south of the entrance 73.2 NM. A VERY long day even with the Gulf Steam and you will be coming into Lake Worth Inlet at night-- OK if you are a really seasoned sailor) .

but i cant find a way back in the ICW at Lake Worth...you mean Palm Beach? that would be on New Years

then the ICW 8 days up to whereever we can get by the 7th.... Titusville.
THIS ASSUMES 100% GOOD WEATHER.

NO WAY I WOULD DO IT THAT WAY!
Last edited by wolfe10 on Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Brett Wolfe
C350 #180
"Vindaloo"
League City, TX

Fiftybucks
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Fiftybucks » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:48 am

Revised:

Palmetto
Venice - marina
Captiva
Marco
LittleShark

Have to decide in or out with weather - Matecumbe or 7 mile

near Key Largo inside or outside.

Biscayne
PalmBeach?
but i cant find a way back in the ICW at Lake Worth...you mean Palm Beach? that would be on New Years

then the ICW 8 days up to whereever we can get by the 7th.... Titusville.
Cheers Hull #380 (Infinity) new CG DV name

wolfe10
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: League City, Texas

Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by wolfe10 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:01 am

First, Lake Worth Inlet is where you get back in at W Palm Beach.

Next, it is a very good learning experience for YOU to do what I did above-- lay out how many miles between stops at the speed you anticipate making and lay that against "daylight" that time of year. Yes, if you are anchored out (I am thinking about off the west side of the Everglades), you can leave before dawn and there are areas where we have very safely arrived after dark (like a 2 square mile area 1/2 mile off the shore all with 8' depth and wind off the shore/east so it is protected).

Post that daily schedule and we will be happy to comment. Be sure to include your anticipated boat speed.

But remember, you will not have 10 "let's go out and cover those mile" days in a row that time of year. If you do, you are leading a truly charmed life. We have certainly NEVER had a 10 day weather window in that area that time of year. So, very high likelihood you will be holed up along the way.
Brett Wolfe
C350 #180
"Vindaloo"
League City, TX

Fiftybucks
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:10 pm
Location: Idaho, and Cheers

Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Fiftybucks » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:41 pm

i want to highlight the issue of my concerns:
i selected a passage thru Shell Key exactly where the ICW supposedly goes thru an Island... 6' 4' 2' across the island itself. Not just in one application but Aquamap, CruisersNet.net Map... My150 page detailed Maptech Cruising Guide, and last of all Google Earth. I have not checked Navionics...
the first 3 show the disparity between the ICW aligment, if you took at night you'd run aground, in 3 applications..and Cruising Guide.
only Google earth shows the channel and measures about 45 ft wide.. maybe only the middle usable 20'.
ShellKeyICW_4002.jpg
CrusersNet Shell Key
ShellKeyICW_4002.jpg (25.72 KiB) Viewed 82 times
ShellKeyICW_4001.jpg
Aquamap Shell Key
ShellKeyICW_4001.jpg (56.17 KiB) Viewed 82 times
ShellKeyICW_3001.jpg
Google Earth Shell Key
ShellKeyICW_3001.jpg (29.56 KiB) Viewed 82 times
I know if I had transited the area I'd have a track I could load that would be good in any condition at any light. but i don't.
if i can export the proposed route in an xml format for google earth i will overlay and get an image..
This Area has existed for what 50 years?
Cheers Hull #380 (Infinity) new CG DV name

Fiftybucks
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:10 pm
Location: Idaho, and Cheers

Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Fiftybucks » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:50 pm

I just check OpenCPN.... just as bad, maybe worse..

Navionics just now shows the best info.. I hope my old Raymarine e80 with 2005 charts shows as the online Navionics Viewer.
but i have to re-input all the waypoints by hand. CF card. Guess I need new plotter and new cards
Attachments
ShellKeyICW_5Navionics001.jpg
ShellKeyICW_5Navionics001.jpg (41.67 KiB) Viewed 82 times
Cheers Hull #380 (Infinity) new CG DV name

wolfe10
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Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by wolfe10 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:14 pm

Please confirm you have the 4'6" wing keel, not the deep draft keel.
Brett Wolfe
C350 #180
"Vindaloo"
League City, TX

Fiftybucks
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:10 pm
Location: Idaho, and Cheers

Re: Newbie Embarking from Tampa to Titusville

Post by Fiftybucks » Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:35 pm

yes.... wing keel.
i realize these apps are mostly gross planning apps whereas the navionics more suited real navigation thus the increased accuracy.
the inside ICW thru looks definitely doeable and safe in navionics, and Aquamap if the buoys are used as the guide.

I just placed route as overlay exported from Aquamap
Using the marker buoys as a guide are much more accurate... see overlay below
ShellKeyICW_5OpenCPN001.jpg
ShellKeyICW_5OpenCPN001.jpg (34.76 KiB) Viewed 78 times
Cheers Hull #380 (Infinity) new CG DV name

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