How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose ballooning

Post your technical questions or solutions about your boat's plumbing here.

Moderator: KenKrawford

Post Reply
tranquil
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 10:07 pm
Location: chicago

How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose ballooning

Post by tranquil »

Two weeks ago I replaced the plastic "spigot" coming out the back of the H20 heater which connects to the red H20 hose (hot). My thanks to all for the detailed blogs that made it easy. By The Way Lowes is the ONLY place that carried it-not Home Depot, Menards, Ace or TruValue.

I've been checking on it each week and yesterday imagine my surprise when I saw this (see photo) on/in the hot water hose (red). I've never seen anything like it before. The inner hose is fine, but the red sheath is blown up like a balloon full of water. It seeps H20 at the hose clamp, despite being tight. I am not sure where else it is weeping a bit.

The plastic spigot is warm/hot, the bronze spigot on the H20 heater that it goes into is warm/hot and the balloon part of the hose is warm. There's a bit of H20 aft of the H20 manifold at the aft of the bilge, which I assume is from this weeping.

I've not touched the H20 heater, but did have the new boat yard winterize it last fall (which is why the spigot was broken) I am 5'1" and 115# and I can barely get down in there to work - only by pulling my knees to my chin and laying down is it possible.

So - what temperature should the H20 be? I can bring a cooking thermometer to check.

Where is the temperature adjustment and how?

The hose is original to the boat - but afraid if I just replace it will happen again. The hose goes too far and snakes around too much to use black inflexible hose.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Teri
Teri Weber
Tranquil
Hull #181 2004
Attachments
bubble on red Hot H20 hose connected to plastic spigot connected to brass ring on H20 heater
bubble on red Hot H20 hose connected to plastic spigot connected to brass ring on H20 heater
IMG_1191 (3).JPG (37.79 KiB) Viewed 12028 times
Teri Weber
Tranquil
Hull #187
Chicago
Tranquilcat42@yahoo.com
KenKrawford
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by KenKrawford »

Terri, I don't believe that there is a way to adjust the temperature of the water in the heater. There is a fixed temperature control thermostat that prevents the water from exceeding a certain temperature but I couldn't find any reference as to what that limit is.
There must have been a crack in the lining of the hose that allowed water to form the bubble in the outer layer of the hose pictured. I would cut out the damaged piece of hose and splice in a replacement . The only other thing you would need is a hose barb union and a couple of hose clamps.
Ken Krawford
Message Board Moderator
C350 # 351
Lake Lanier, GA
tranquil
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 10:07 pm
Location: chicago

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by tranquil »

Thank you very much Ken! Once again, you have been very helpful.

Will see how it goes today with repairs on my Seward F-1100

Teri
Teri Weber
Tranquil
Hull #187
Chicago
Tranquilcat42@yahoo.com
SeaBreeze
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:15 pm

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by SeaBreeze »

Terri
Ken is correct as usual. I just checked the literature on the water heater and it specifies a fixed setpoint. By the way - does anyone know who the manufacturer is if the blue and red tubing and the fittings like barbed elbows and unions? Also who makes the special tool and hose clamps? The manifolds are made bt Sea Tech. But a look at their web site product listing only shows quick connectors, no tubing. I'm thinking of buying a couple of feet of tubing and an assortment of connectors so I will be prepared to make an emergency repair when (not if) it becomes necessary.
Rick
Sea Breeze
Rick Parish
Sea Breeze
KenKrawford
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by KenKrawford »

I'm not sure who makes the potable water hoses on the 350 but Sea Tech makes some that looks just like ours. http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... id=1244499
Ken Krawford
Message Board Moderator
C350 # 351
Lake Lanier, GA
leigh weiss
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by leigh weiss »

The water heater has a fixed set point when heated by electric power and will go up to about 160F when engine heated.
You might want to add a tempering valve (Thermostatic Mixing Valves) see the url: http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbout/t ... p?catId=64 to the output of the heater to limit the temp of the supply of HW to the boat, I think the new DHW tanks have an anti scald valve as an option. It may be able to retro fit this valve to our tanks.
The Red and Blue tubing I think can be replaced with "PEX" HDPE tubing (with fittings) sold at most plumbing stores. I have not tried this as a replacement but would like to know if it works.
Lots of luck with this project, and keep us posted.
Leigh and Donna Weiss
Brisa #155
Georgetown, MD. USA
tranquil
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 10:07 pm
Location: chicago

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by tranquil »

Dear Brisa, SeaBreeze and Ken,

You beat me to it! Yesterday was not good. West Marine only sells rigid red (hot) and blue (cold) H20 (assume approved for H20 consumption) hose with brass quick connect fittings. Completely different from what I have now, flexile white hose with a red sheath for hot and blue for cold. (I know you all know this already but I want to be specific so if I am making an incorrect assumption you might be able to discern it)

I will look up the information you provided regarding replacement hoses and let you know. A boat neighbor gave me 3' of 1/2" Goodyear black rubber flexible hose and said he uses it for his water system - bought it from West Marine 8+ years ago. Is black rubber hose ok to use for H20 in your view?

Boat neighbor encouraged resetting the temperature and/or high limit switch if the water was too hot (after testing H20 with a cooking thermometer) I pulled the Seward manual off the internet for the F 1100 and it stated to reset high limit switch:

power off main
remove wiring access cover
depress red button or hi temp limit switch
replace cover and power on
if temp limit switch reactivates contact authorized service center

What does the last sentence mean? Forgive my ignorance but isnt the purpose of resetting the same as reactivating? Now I am afraid to touch it-if needed.

Am off to research your previous links - thanks to all and appreciate the assistance!

Teri
Teri Weber
Tranquil
Hull #187
Chicago
Tranquilcat42@yahoo.com
tranquil
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 10:07 pm
Location: chicago

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by tranquil »

Found 2 possibilities for hot H20 hose - would these work?

http://greatlakesskipper.com/purosil-80 ... er-hose-ft

http://greatlakesskipper.com/shields-11 ... er-hose-ft

They are different than the existing hose but seem similar. The other hoses are rigid and not insulated.

Thanks

Teri
Teri Weber
Tranquil
Hull #187
Chicago
Tranquilcat42@yahoo.com
leigh weiss
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by leigh weiss »

Teri,
Great hose but a bit pricey! The hose we have as OEM seems to be semi rigid. The PEX is stiffer and not a laminate (2 ply). I am thinking that the PEX would be an economical replacement. I wonder if the hose in our boats are like some of the fittings (European, Italy) in origin.
I will keep looking as well.
Leigh and Donna Weiss
Brisa #155
Georgetown, MD. USA
KenKrawford
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by KenKrawford »

Teri, the high temp. limit switch prevents the water heater from producing water hotter than a pre-determined limit. I don't think you can changed this upper limit without replacing the switch with one that has a higher or lower limit than the one installed. If the upper limit is exceeded, the switch will trip much like a circuit breaker will and current to the heater is interrupted. Pressing the red button on the switch re-engages the switch and current is restored. If it continually trips, the switch is probably defective and needs to be replaced. This switch has no effect on water heated via the heat exchanger on the engine.
Ken Krawford
Message Board Moderator
C350 # 351
Lake Lanier, GA
R.B.
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:04 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by R.B. »

Try Whale http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/ some of our fittings are from them and the hoses may be too.
Ralph

WOLFHELM
C350 #342
leigh weiss
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by leigh weiss »

Teri,
The mixing valve you might consider is in the WHALE web catalog "http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/produc ... Type=10357 "
The instructions for installation and operation are also discussed in a PDF file you can down load.
This might solve your problem. Let us know what you think.
Leigh and Donna Weiss
Brisa #155
Georgetown, MD. USA
tranquil
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 10:07 pm
Location: chicago

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by tranquil »

My thanks to Ken, Brisa and Wolfhelm for valuable information!

I tested the hot H20 temp and it is fine - 175 degrees which is within tolerance, I believe. So validated the hose is the issue, as was suggested here, as opposed to my original thinking the hot H20 heater went wacko. Turns out I took a lightening touch or light strike, as my instruments and other gages are out. Happened to have my mechanic on board yesterday to repair the trans/prop shaft/dripless that the boat yard "fixed" and he checked out many items for me. He is from Sailplace in Kenosha and knows Catalinas inside out. 4 -6 week wait to book him but he is the best!

Turns out the leak is at the hot H20 manifold input, so I am shopping for a gasket, which hopefully will fix the problem.

Been shopping for PEX tubing to replace the ballooning hot H20 hose and everything I found is more rigid and requires the brass quick connect fittings. It also requires special tools because they crimp or heat the hose to the fittings. Been to the usual Menards, Home Depot, Lowes. Have not found a plumbing store per se that sells retail around here. Dont have enough to cut off the bad and re-attach. Given the lightening strike and the need for new instruments, the pricy hose looks good compared to the cost of Raymarine :) Also given the boat yard really messed up and I will only have my boat for the month of September to enjoy it, this has been the most expensive boating season in my 25 year history and am trying to keep my wits about me as I make decisions. Will keep you posted after I figure out what to do regarding hose.

Thanks again
Teri
Teri Weber
Tranquil
Hull #187
Chicago
Tranquilcat42@yahoo.com
KenKrawford
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by KenKrawford »

Teri have you considered filing an insurance claim for the lightening damage? It's possible that as time goes on you will continue to find more items that have been damaged. I went through this a couple of years ago. The first thing the insurance company had me do was haul the boat. Lightening has to exit the boat some where and often it's through the hull.
Ken Krawford
Message Board Moderator
C350 # 351
Lake Lanier, GA
tranquil
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 10:07 pm
Location: chicago

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by tranquil »

Ken

Thanks for the advice. It's taken me a week to track down the source of bilge leaks to determine if I am taking on water, and I am not. I had a leaking hot H20 manifold and a leak around the the shower sump hose which I've remedied - along with the leak on the blog from the anchor locker. I think I've checked everything I can and am ready to file an insurance claim today.

Have not done this before....I hope they will not pull the boat since I just got it in the water (due to issues from the new boat yard) and took our first sail on it this weekend Season ends/pull out is Oct 1st..... sigh

Thanks
Teri
Teri Weber
Tranquil
Hull #187
Chicago
Tranquilcat42@yahoo.com
leigh weiss
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by leigh weiss »

Just got back from the boat and tried some PEX tubing as a replacement. This did not work!!!
I still have not found a two ply reinforced tubing replacement (red and blue). Has anyone found an economical replacement?
Leigh and Donna Weiss
Brisa #155
Georgetown, MD. USA
Dave DeSalvo
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:36 pm

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by Dave DeSalvo »

Has anyone tried Trident Reinforced PVC Hose? For potable water. Saw it on Jamestown Distributor website when researching the Jabsco pump that was mentioned in an Accumulator Tank thread.
tranquil
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 10:07 pm
Location: chicago

Re: How decrease H20 heater temperature -hot H20 hose balloo

Post by tranquil »

To stop the leak I used black rubber hose - until my expensive stuff arrives.

For a long term fix, I ordered the insulated, flexible hose that I listed in an above post.

Teri
Teri Weber
Tranquil
Hull #187
Chicago
Tranquilcat42@yahoo.com
Post Reply