I have not been receiving emails on this problem so I finally looked at this site today. This may be a repeat, but I mentioned long ago in several emails that I had a very bad vibration problem with the first Autoprop which was ordered and installed by my dealer for my new boat in 2003, Hull #111. To make a long story short, Autoprop had me record rpm vs speed, both into seaway and wind and away from both, then they resized the prop, paid for haulout, replacement, etc. and the new one has worked well for two full seasons. It is slightly smaller than the original. It is Autoprop H5-380mm. Serial # AP5861. I only have the serial # of the original, AP 5792.
My boat does 6.5-7 knots at 2400 RPM. At 1800 RPM she does about 5.5-6 knots depending on seas. I am on the Hudson river so waves are usually less than 2 feet, however I have cruised in the Atlantic off the NJ shore and have not had a vibration problem since the prop was replaced. I have not reached the theoretical hull speed of 7.4 knots, but then I have not really tried to hold the engine for prolonged periods above 2400 RPM.
Perhaps the folks at Autoprop can speak with the folks at Catalina and tell them what they think needs to be done.
Richard
Cavitation
Moderator: KenKrawford
Prop Selection
Richard,
Thanks for the info on the Autoprop. I have been thinking of replacing my prop with a folding prop to get better speed under sail. In your note you indicated that you get 6.5 k under power -- what type of speed are you recording under sail? Are you at hull speed on a broad reach with a 15 k wind? How is you performance in light winds, 6 -7 k ?
Armin
MakeWay
Thanks for the info on the Autoprop. I have been thinking of replacing my prop with a folding prop to get better speed under sail. In your note you indicated that you get 6.5 k under power -- what type of speed are you recording under sail? Are you at hull speed on a broad reach with a 15 k wind? How is you performance in light winds, 6 -7 k ?
Armin
MakeWay
Prop Selection
Bill,
I received a letter from Frank's office advising me that Catalina was in the final stages of selecting the R14 x 10 Dyna-Jet propeller; it having had the best performance of the props they tested. I assume that they are refering to your tests. Have you had a chance to evaluate the effect of the change in props on the speed under sail? Did you by chance test any folding props? To my knowledge none of the C350 owners who have installed folding props have had a problem with cavitation once their props were properly adjusted.
Hope this problem will be resolve soon -- the boat goes back into the water in less than 90 days!
Thanks for all of you efforts in trying to get the problem solved.
Armin
MakeWay # 207
I received a letter from Frank's office advising me that Catalina was in the final stages of selecting the R14 x 10 Dyna-Jet propeller; it having had the best performance of the props they tested. I assume that they are refering to your tests. Have you had a chance to evaluate the effect of the change in props on the speed under sail? Did you by chance test any folding props? To my knowledge none of the C350 owners who have installed folding props have had a problem with cavitation once their props were properly adjusted.
Hope this problem will be resolve soon -- the boat goes back into the water in less than 90 days!
Thanks for all of you efforts in trying to get the problem solved.
Armin
MakeWay # 207
Prop
Just got back from a real test for the replacement prop. Catalina told me to re-install the "Dyna" prop that I found satisfactory. Coming back from Naples, we crossed Sarasota Bay with 30-40 knots on the nose, seas 2-4 feet or so. On average speed was 4-5 knots at 2400 rpm and 5-6 knots at 2800 rpm. There was a a slight, deep, cavitation sound at times. However, it was the kind of thing I might expect on any boat.
I am satisfied with the new prop. And I'm very glad to be rid of the loud roaring vibration that would accure with the original prop.
Gerry Douglas said that they had been testing props on a CAtalina 350 out in California too. I do not know the results of that testing. Last time I spoke to Gerry, he said to keep the new prop, and that he hoped to have a final solution by Spring. He wanted to test the "Dyna" prop on a few other boats that had said they had the problem.
Speed under sail: I tried to test this by dragging the orignal prop, then the new Dyna prop behind the boat while under power at 3, then 5 knots. The test wasn't very well done, so I didn't publish anything on it. I have not tested a folding/feathering prop either. Here's my best guess though. I think that by dragging the three bladed prop you loose 1/2 knot of boat speed verses the folding prop. The difference between the original and the Dyna prop might be an additonal .1 knot at most. Either this or nothing. Like I said though, not a real accurate test method.
I am satisfied with the new prop. And I'm very glad to be rid of the loud roaring vibration that would accure with the original prop.
Gerry Douglas said that they had been testing props on a CAtalina 350 out in California too. I do not know the results of that testing. Last time I spoke to Gerry, he said to keep the new prop, and that he hoped to have a final solution by Spring. He wanted to test the "Dyna" prop on a few other boats that had said they had the problem.
Speed under sail: I tried to test this by dragging the orignal prop, then the new Dyna prop behind the boat while under power at 3, then 5 knots. The test wasn't very well done, so I didn't publish anything on it. I have not tested a folding/feathering prop either. Here's my best guess though. I think that by dragging the three bladed prop you loose 1/2 knot of boat speed verses the folding prop. The difference between the original and the Dyna prop might be an additonal .1 knot at most. Either this or nothing. Like I said though, not a real accurate test method.
Caviation/Vibration Update
I spoke to Gerry Douglas today. In trying to find the "best" solution, Gerry would like to test one more prop. He is sending me a newly designed and improved "Sailor" prop from Michigan Propellers. This new prop sounds like a cross between the "Dyna" prop and the original Sailor prop . If successful, this prop might have a little less drag while under sail than the Dyna prop.
I'll get it tested as soon as i can, as I know that many of you seasonal sailors will be splashing your boats soon. I think once tested, we're finished, and Catalina will offer a resolution.
If you are about to splash, and have had a real problem with the original prop, I suggest you contact Gerry, or me.
I'll get it tested as soon as i can, as I know that many of you seasonal sailors will be splashing your boats soon. I think once tested, we're finished, and Catalina will offer a resolution.
If you are about to splash, and have had a real problem with the original prop, I suggest you contact Gerry, or me.
Final test I hope
I tested another prop for Catalina today. This was very similar to the one I had success with. The results were good. This newly tested prop performed a little better than the last one. I go .1-.2 more boat speed, and no cavitaion/vibration noise. I'll be reporting back to Catalina on this.
I think this might be the final test, and I'd look for something from Catalina very soon. If you are about to launch, and you have the original three blade, you might want to get a new prop before launching.
I will be discussing the solution with Gerry Douglas this week, and will post his comments here. Stand by just a little longer...
Bill
I think this might be the final test, and I'd look for something from Catalina very soon. If you are about to launch, and you have the original three blade, you might want to get a new prop before launching.
I will be discussing the solution with Gerry Douglas this week, and will post his comments here. Stand by just a little longer...
Bill
Final prop now shipping?
I'm taking delivery of a new 350 (#379) in a few weeks, so this forum is of great interest to me. After discussion with my dealer (Hellier Yacht Sales, New London, CT... excellent!), they contacted Catalina for an update.
Good news! Frank Butler is sending the “newâ€
Good news! Frank Butler is sending the “newâ€
John Morgan
Nunki #379
Greenwich Bay, RI
Nunki #379
Greenwich Bay, RI
-
Hans Grasman
cavitation-new prop
To: Barry and John
I have the Mich.Sail prop installed. Returned Friday from rough round trip Punta Gorda/Key West 30 hrs each way. Had some heavy seas on the nose. No cavitation!!!!
Problem has been fixed with prop replacement.
Hans
Belcourt #165
I have the Mich.Sail prop installed. Returned Friday from rough round trip Punta Gorda/Key West 30 hrs each way. Had some heavy seas on the nose. No cavitation!!!!
Problem has been fixed with prop replacement.
Hans
Belcourt #165
-
Chips Ahoy!
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:14 pm
- Location: Staten Island (Great Kills Harbor), NY
flexible coupling and prop replacement
Have you folks installed a flexible coupling between the drive and prop shafts as part of the "cavitation" solution.
A mechanic/member giving a seminar at our club suggested to me that our problem is that the boat is racking (sp?) in the conditions we describe setting up a nasty vibration. His notion was that the boat is actually twisting as she noses into the chop and this cause a misalignment between the drive and prop shafts.
...he wasn't selling anything and was sincerely explaining his sense of the problem.
His suggestion was to install a flexible coupling between the drive and prop shafts. I'm not sure exactly which one though. There are a bunch listed with West Marine...I have to go and count the bolts and measure stuff.
I think Stan Reed dropped a pearl like this at a Fleet 5 gathering....but I gave it the old head scratch at the time.
...just a thought.
A mechanic/member giving a seminar at our club suggested to me that our problem is that the boat is racking (sp?) in the conditions we describe setting up a nasty vibration. His notion was that the boat is actually twisting as she noses into the chop and this cause a misalignment between the drive and prop shafts.
...he wasn't selling anything and was sincerely explaining his sense of the problem.
His suggestion was to install a flexible coupling between the drive and prop shafts. I'm not sure exactly which one though. There are a bunch listed with West Marine...I have to go and count the bolts and measure stuff.
I think Stan Reed dropped a pearl like this at a Fleet 5 gathering....but I gave it the old head scratch at the time.
...just a thought.
-george pringle
Chips Ahoy! #232
Staten Island (Great Kills Harbor), NY
Chips Ahoy! #232
Staten Island (Great Kills Harbor), NY
George,
The use of a flexible coupling was the first solution attempted by Catalina. At our Fleet 5 meeting in March 2005, I mentioned that after discussions with Frank and Gerry, Catalina sent a flexible coupling to me to try to resolve the problem. Unfortunately the space between the transmission flange and the prop shaft tube when using the high speed seal is not sufficient to permit fitting of the coupling.
As of this time I have not been advised of Catalina's proposed course of action. The last communication I had with Frank was in February, at which time he advised that they were reviewing several prop options. Since it is near the begining of our boating season, I do hope that they will select a fix before too long.
Hope all is well with you and that we will have a chance to discuss this matter at the next Fleet 5 meeting. Have you received any info on plans for a meeting?
I plan to splash the last week of April or the first week on May. Hopefully, Fleet 5 will have a schedule of activities for the season in the near future.
Fair Winds to you and yours,
Armin
"MakeWay" hull #207
The use of a flexible coupling was the first solution attempted by Catalina. At our Fleet 5 meeting in March 2005, I mentioned that after discussions with Frank and Gerry, Catalina sent a flexible coupling to me to try to resolve the problem. Unfortunately the space between the transmission flange and the prop shaft tube when using the high speed seal is not sufficient to permit fitting of the coupling.
As of this time I have not been advised of Catalina's proposed course of action. The last communication I had with Frank was in February, at which time he advised that they were reviewing several prop options. Since it is near the begining of our boating season, I do hope that they will select a fix before too long.
Hope all is well with you and that we will have a chance to discuss this matter at the next Fleet 5 meeting. Have you received any info on plans for a meeting?
I plan to splash the last week of April or the first week on May. Hopefully, Fleet 5 will have a schedule of activities for the season in the near future.
Fair Winds to you and yours,
Armin
"MakeWay" hull #207
-
LONGHAWK
cavitation
Catalina has a new prop they now offer. You can call Warren Pandy in Florida and order it. They are offering it at something appearing to be their cost.
I spoke with Warren today and they have them ready to ship.
LONGHAWK #173
I spoke with Warren today and they have them ready to ship.
LONGHAWK #173
-
KenKrawford
- Posts: 614
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:54 pm
- Location: Atlanta, GA
-
Allsail
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:32 am
- Location: Chesapeake Harbour Marina Annapolis, MD
Warranty Issues
Ken... Nothing is going to happen unless pressure, legal or otherwise, is applied to Catalina.
Even if your boat is out of warranty, the problem existed while it was under warranty. More critically, your dealer and Catalina sold u the boat knowing there was this problem. They also were aware of the frig issues. I like u waited for a later hull no to try to avoid these kind of initial design issues that can come with new boats, cars, etc. This is called lack of disclosure, which could be a good case in court.
The boat overall, as we all know, is a great boat. It is unfortunate that these couple of issues can't be resolved.
The Association needs to aggressively pursue these issues with Catalina. And unless they are doing it in the background, i do not see it.
Even if your boat is out of warranty, the problem existed while it was under warranty. More critically, your dealer and Catalina sold u the boat knowing there was this problem. They also were aware of the frig issues. I like u waited for a later hull no to try to avoid these kind of initial design issues that can come with new boats, cars, etc. This is called lack of disclosure, which could be a good case in court.
The boat overall, as we all know, is a great boat. It is unfortunate that these couple of issues can't be resolved.
The Association needs to aggressively pursue these issues with Catalina. And unless they are doing it in the background, i do not see it.
Association response
I believe that most owners are very happy with their boat and with Catalina’s customer support but when you do have a problem please do not expect that the association should always act on your behalf. This is one of those times when there may not be a solution that is satisfactory to all parties involved
The cavitation and refrigeration issues are not seen across all boats or experienced by all owners contrary to what a few may think or wish to believe and the association does not plan to act as an arbitrator between individual owners and Catalina, or the dealers. If you have an issue with your particular boat then please take it up with them.
Regarding the associations current involvement, we have been very much involved on a number of levels including providing this forum and facilitating various surveys and tests to capture valid information about issues that we then pass along to Catalina. I am sorry if you find that effort unsatisfactory. I would like to personally thank those members who have volunteered their considerable time and effort in this and other areas. Good Sailing.
Greg Klocek
Commodore C350IA
s/v Whitehook #199
The cavitation and refrigeration issues are not seen across all boats or experienced by all owners contrary to what a few may think or wish to believe and the association does not plan to act as an arbitrator between individual owners and Catalina, or the dealers. If you have an issue with your particular boat then please take it up with them.
Regarding the associations current involvement, we have been very much involved on a number of levels including providing this forum and facilitating various surveys and tests to capture valid information about issues that we then pass along to Catalina. I am sorry if you find that effort unsatisfactory. I would like to personally thank those members who have volunteered their considerable time and effort in this and other areas. Good Sailing.
Greg Klocek
Commodore C350IA
s/v Whitehook #199