Head Flushing

[Fat Cat]

We have an electric head on our 350 which for the most part works quite well, other than the following. Firstly, it makes such an ungodly noise when activated I'd be embarassed to use it in the early hours of a quiet anchorage. Is this normal? Secondly, in order to clear the bowl after #2, you usually must leave the head, close the head seacock, make yet more loud noise by flushing again, and then when clear, re-open the seacock. Again, is this normal? Any advice/comments will be greatly appreciated.

[TBOT422]

Fat Cat,

Yes that seems to pretty well describe our head as well. One process modification we have taken that seems to help is to use the fresh water from the shower to flush rather than the salt water. This is fine unless you are on a long remote cruise and fresh water becomes precious. Using the shower allows you to control the water in the bowl and the pumping out of the bowl more easily than opening/closing the salt water seacock. The C350 head only has a single switch position, it can easily pump salt water into the head faster than it pumps out the sold waste. Our previous boat had a 3-postion switch that allowed you to pump out waste without water going in (dry bowl), pump in water only (fill bowl), or pump in water and waste out at the same time (flush bowl). You can do the same thing with the shower head. Leave the salt water sea cock closed. Half fill the bowl with water from the shower, then after the #2, pump the waste out. When nearly empty, add a little more water from the shower to make sure the solid waste is completely discharged into the holding tank and not just in the discharge line. If you really want to make sure, stop pumping out, and re-fill the bowl about half full from the shower again and pump out, leaving the discharge line with nothing but fresh water in it. This process also does not fill the holding tank as quickly as you are not constantly pumping saltwater into the holding tank while trying to flush.

I have thought about adding another valve in the head somewhere on the salt water inlet so that it would be easier to control the salt water than going into the forward cabin and opening/closing the seacock. But that would still not let me easily fill the bowl.

I have no suggestions about the noise the macerator makes, but I doubt that it is as loud outside the boat as you think.

[russp]

Hi Fat Cat,

Some people may consider it unsafe, but I and many others I know of when coastal cruising don't shut their seacocks when on the boat and using it. The way I look at it, if a fitting downstream of the skinfitting fails, it is just a matter of closing the seacock and all is well again - albeit you have a bit of water aboard and probably a few anxious moments.

If the skin fitting fails it doesn't matter if the seacock is open or closed so no greater safety offered by having it closed.

Thus going back and forth to the seacock isn't an issue for us. The noise is terrible in the head, reverberates through the hull, but I think another boat 50' away wouldn't hear much, even at 5 am!

Good luck.

Russ Peel
Avalon #150

[Fat Cat]

Thanks for the shower idea... never would have considered that one. Fresh water is in no short supply here, so I'll try it next time. Thanks. As to the racket flushing, maybe I'm a little sensitive because my embarassment is directly related to the time holding the button.

Fat Cat #258

[TBOT422]

Fat Cat,

If the time to flush solid waste seems excessive using the shower approach, it may be time to service or replace the joker valve. The joker valve is just a check valve located on the side of the toilet on the discharge line. It is just a rubber ball-like section with 4 slits in it. As waste is pumped out the discharge line, the slits open up. When the pump pressure stops, the slits close and prevent waste in the discharge line from flowing back into the toilet. If you are in salt water, over time, the joker valve becomes encrusted with calcium and doesn't open freely, and thus the waste does not pump out as quickly. Eventually, it weill get so encrusted, that you won't be able to pump out anything. You need to service it or replace it before that happens. Replacing is easy, just order a new joker valve, and replace it. Alternatively, you can 'service' it by cleaning it. Take the joker valve out and set it in vinegar for awhile, then carefully scrape off the calcium deposits until it looks like new and replace it.

Good Luck

[digitalvillager]

We are having the same issues on Quit In Time. The noise comes with the Sea Era Electric. We just accumulate over night or go admire the stars for a couple of minutes off the sugar scoop if we are anchored out. If you call Raritan, they will tell you that the Joker valve (Part #254) should be changed about every year and a half. There are other issues like calcium accumulation in the lines, but the first step is to replace the Joker valve. The toilet runs a lot quieter when the seacock is fully open.

[AynB]

Our two cents on #1 and #2 . Yes the damn head is noisy, and unless you are at the dock leaning against the hull, you can't really hear it. The gauge system is horrible and untrustworthy. Seawater intake stinks - especially if you don't use it every day. We used to get about six months out of a joker valve, now about a year. We are living aboard about 6 months at a go.

Our experience with pumping out and actually getting the blackwater tank "clean" and empty has caused us to search for an alternative. (This is really a major problem for us, where we sail and how we live - the tank design and plumbing just don't work ) (( we've a few really horror stories if anyone cares ))

Our solution: we have , for the last two seasons , not used the head for #2 at all. Rather we use camping bags. These are double bag systems with gel-ifiying granules for #1. They are intended for single use, but with prudence we easily get two to three days of solid waste handled, with two aboard. The remainder of the time, the bowl gets #1 and fills up the tank much more slowly - giving us extended range between dumps or pumpouts.
We never use the seawater intake and by using the above system, our daily freshwater use down the drain is at most a half gallon. When we hit a marina, we offload the clearly marked bags into dumpsters, much like dog waste would be handled. The bags are very heavy duty and are available at quite a places. We offset the cost of the bags by the knowledge and peace of mind that at the end of the season, I don't have to stand at the pumpout for 2 hours to get the tank clear. ( I've even made a special tool to make the job easier - still takes me about two hours ).

And as a final comment, again because of where we sail, when we do open the dump valve underway, we know that it's just urine and water going 'over the side'.

Al
Halona #17

[Fat Cat]

Looks like this weekend I'm going to find out what a joker valve looks like. I'll assume the discharge line is the one headed directly to the holding tank. Our boat is a 2004 and new to us last September... I'm thinking it's never been apart before. Is there any other maintenance these heads require, since I'm going to have my head in there anyways?

Fat Cat #258

[AynB]

I put up my method for dealing with the replacement of the joker valve before, you can search for it if you care.
Here's a short version.
Don't try it until the joker is for certain allowing backflow. Easy to tell, fill the bowl, drain it, wait 24 hours - if the bowl has about 3.5" of liquid in it - the joker is leaking. ( or the seawater anti-siphon is not up to par ). If you have a working joker, you'll get about a quarter gallon of liquid on the floor ( your knees, etc ).
Day of job: flush, flush, flush with clear water. Then as the bowl backfills, use a turkey baster to empty. You can do this well enough that when you break the seal, you'll have a half cup of water to deal with.
Unscrew the three bolts - you'll need a shorty phillips for one. break the seal and remove the joker.
In theory, the orientation of the valve does not matter, but for next time I have found that when the valve fails and you want to minimize the remaining water that the baster won't get out, orient the flaps up and down ( not like a human mouth - side to side ).
I use a bit of either anhydrous lanolin or vaseline to make a better seal, but I think that's my AR showing up. The design is very good.
As for "other maintenance" . The early models have a zinc that can be inspected and replaced just like the engine HE zinc. However, the replacement part is no longer made and the new models no longer even have one. Since you are both an old boat and in salt water, check the zinc and cut the end off a #0 pencil zinc and drop it in the housing [ as you are looking at the head from the forward cabin, the zinc housing was at 10:00 just aft of the macerator motor. ] The other thing that can be maintained is the actual macerator blades, but that is an entire teardown of the head. Done it twice. Yuck!
Al
Halona #17

[yodagwb]

I couldn't take the noise of the electric head, especially if you are in a raft up or have guests. It also seemed I was always fixing something on it so in 2007 I replaced it with a Rairitan PHII manual. Best move ever. Easy to flush, quite, joker replacement a breeze. We to typically use the shower to flush, it seems to use less water and in turn doesn't fill the holding tank quite as fast.

[Triumph]

Fat Cat, I had the same problems and did the same as you, closed the seacock to empty the bowl. Even though I had cleaned the choker valve so that it appeared new, I wasn't happy with the flush, esp if the batteries were low. At one point too, i cleaned the calcium deposit out of the discharge hose. After installing a new choker value, my head flushes great, I never need to close the seacock - it works like new. So even it your choker value LOOKS good, it may well be the problem.

Bill on TRIUMPH

[Fat Cat]

Several weeks after my complaints about the noise and poor performance, the whole bottom end stopped working altogether. I replaced what Raritan calls "the bottom end" with a new Sea Era, voila!... it works quieter and better than ever. What I didn't realize is the sea water pump on the back of the motor was not anywhere near pumping the volume that it was supposed to. We will now flush with the head sea cock open and when leaving the boat, close the sea cock and add fresh water to the bowl from the shower. Perfect!!

[nybor]

wow, misery loves company!
ok, question. I noticed that on top of the holding tank (hard to get to) is a small elbow fitting which FEELS like a barbed end. It is open to the atmosphere - most likely a vent to allow for pump out. However, is there a valve or tube or SOMETHING missing up there? it is towards the back of the tank - I will look at it next time i am on the boat. But if it is open, wouldn't that allow odors to emanate from there?
thanks in advance
dave
ps why is it called a "head"? why not "Butt"?

[TBOT422]

dave,

I don't recall a fitting at the top of our tank that was not connected, but there is supposed to be a vent overboard. If you look at the side of the boat just forward of the waste tank deck fitting, you will see a small vent below the rub rail. When you flush the toilet, do you hear air escaping from this vent? Conversely, when you empty the tank via the drain valve, do you hear air entering this vent? Both assuming that the deck mounted waste tank fitting is closed and tight. If not, then possibly the vent line is disconnected. When you look at the top of the tank make sure there is a line running from the holding tank to this vent on the outside of the boat.

[nybor]

excellent! you are correct. The line is missing. I will get some tubing and attach it to the fitting. Thank you.

dave